To: By the numbers 5:09 wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:51 PM:
" I will disputer your numbers. First, teachers at Holmen do NOT have their health insurance paid for from 55 until age 65 - never have - never will. Teachers at Holmen pay 20% of their health insurance premiums....and teachers only get about a 2% increase in salaries - the rest of the 3/5 is consumed by health insurance cost raises. So there are some facts of yours I KNOW are wrong. "
::if you don't want new schools wrote on Aug 31, 2007 5:18 PM:
" Never gonna happen. The village board and the town boards like the money they (individually) make from these developments. Until we get new leadership at the Town, Village, City, County, and State levels expect the rat race to continue. "
if you don't want new schools wrote on Aug 31, 2007 2:09 PM:
" If you don't want new schools, then stop developing new single family homes in your school district. Plain and simple truth, new development, especially large lot single family development produces a need for new schools, and many other services, and does not pay enough in taxes to cover the cost of these services. So stop allowing large lot residential in your school district. Plan, simple easy math. "
4k Transportation wrote on Aug 31, 2007 9:33 AM:
" Wow, I wish I would have taped the school board meeting where I swear I heard that there would be no busing for 4k. That the 4 new teachers would travel to different day care centers. I must have had mud in my ears. "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 31, 2007 9:02 AM:
" Let's be clear, not one figure I have provided has been disputed because the numbers are valid. With the new school, taxpayers are looking at over a 20% increase in taxes. The only question is: What are those on fixed incomes supposed to "give up" to pay for this? "
Well, wrote on Aug 30, 2007 4:56 PM:
" you notice no one has commented on your "by the numbers". Maybe they are sick of playing your ping pong game on this message board. Or maybe they know what I know: arguing with a fool shows there are two. I won't argue with you anymore. You are wrong, you twist information, you misquote numbers, you whine and whine and whine, yet still you are outnumbered because referendums in Holmen DO pass. There are more people who DO support our growing district than those who don't. Period. Now go argue in the mirror because I for one am tired of taking your bait. "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 30, 2007 7:53 AM:
" My truthful numbers remain undisputed. A 10% tax increase is EXACTLY what this school will be, and that isnt taking into account the INCREASE that will happen without a new school. Incomes are only increasing an average of 2%, so where does this board expect us to get the extra money? "
::to Mr. or Mrs. By the Numbers wrote on Aug 28, 2007 5:10 PM:
" Please enlighten us! Please tell us, what are the "true facts," and what facts is Mr. or Mrs. by the numbers distorting? "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 28, 2007 5:07 PM:
" First: I am accused of distorting the facts, please explain how? Second, "equal or in line with neighboring school districts." I agree there 100%. When the median two (2) working family income in 45K, that means that the individual is making 22.5K and most likely not getting too much in the way of benefits, that individual is forced to not only pay teachers and administrators, but also provide 99 % of their health insurance cost and a 12% 18% match to the retirement fund. In addition, when they (teacher/staff) retire at 55, the individual continues to pay for their health insurance for the next 7 to 10 YEARS. The fact is that this new school will raise taxes on the average home more than $300 and a 10% tax increase is ASTRONOMICAL compared to a 2% pay raise. "
to Mr. or Mrs. By the Numbers wrote on Aug 28, 2007 8:38 AM:
" Your calculator is in need of repair. First of all you do not have true facts. Secondly you are disorting them. I suggest that you should meet with District officials to get the right information before you shoot yourself in the foot too many times. Why don't you go to the annual meeting and ask or get the reports that will be provided. You also need to realize that over 60% of the school budget is salaries and benefits. Most of these are equal or in line with neighboring school districts. "
Voters??? wrote on Aug 28, 2007 8:36 AM:
" Whether you disagree with voters or not, the democratic way is that they DO get to decide whether or not to spend money on a new school or other referendum items. And who are you to say that "voters don't look at the whole picture"??? Is it just because they don't share your viewpoint?? Maybe it is YOU who needs to broaden your view. Thank God for the right for adults to vote! "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 27, 2007 5:33 PM:
" Voters doesn't look at the whole picture. When the STATE deems it necessary (every year), it prints a new book stating what the "value" of your home and land are. The state then requires the local assessor to INCREASE your assessment to that number thus local revenue (taxes) increases. So jumps in assessment along with the school districts uncontrolled spending (up 35% per student when incomes increased only 10% for the same period) puts hardship on ALL individuals. You can stretch a dollar only so far, and then it tares, and this new school and additional spending tares it for me. "
TABOR NOW! wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:21 AM:
" There it is, the Mississippi or Alambama comparison. I knew it was coming. That always happens on the Lee Enterprises blogs. The Alambama/Mississippi comparison is a FEAR tactic, not a discussion of the actual issue. The school board can/should find ALTERNATIVES to control spending increases. They have not, therefore the state needs to step in with TABOR. "
Voters wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:08 AM:
" decide referendums. Voters approved the building of Sand Lake and renovations at the Middle School. Don't you think that the increase between 2000 and 2006 is due in large part to referendums? For you to imply that the school board somehow "sneaked that one by" the taxpayers (which, by the way, school board members are, too) when the taxpayers are the ones who voted to APPROVE those issues is unfair and dishonest. The bottom line is your school tax portion of your tax bill. With everything else remaining equal, how much did the school portion of your tax bill change from 2000-2006? Mine went up $264 in 6 years. Big whoop. If you want poor schools, you can always move to Mississippi. "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 26, 2007 11:57 PM:
" It never fails, instead of a discussion of the issue, somebody always resort to insults. Only seven(7) post from my first one and the insults have started. People throw insults on blogs once they realize they don't have a leg to stand on as far as "their side" of an issue. The numbers are what they are, check with the administration and get the TOTAL spending for each year. Then, call the school board and tell them they are the ones who are "dizzy" thinking that they could increase spending this much and nobody would notice. They need to limit spending increases to that of income, NOT EVALUATIONS, INCOME! "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 26, 2007 11:50 PM:
" In 2000, the Holmen School District spent a total of $25,143,756 and had a student body of 2,931 which equates to $8,579 per student. In 2006, the Holmen School District spent a total of $37,823,057 and had a student body of 3,255 which equates to $11,620 per student. Yes, both the feds and state cut back, thus the school board should have limited spending increases to that of income growth, they did not. "
Aren't you dizzy wrote on Aug 26, 2007 7:13 AM:
" from twisting so much information? State and Federal aid to schools decreased from 2000-2007 (thank you, Mr. Bush), so the local municipalities had to pick up the difference, thus the increase in local cost. And just where did you pick up the $11,000 figure for Holmens per pupil spending for this past year? Holmen didn't spend anywhere near that. "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 24, 2007 9:10 PM:
" And if we discount(don't count) state or federal money, then Holmen spent $360 per student in 2000 and $727 per student in 2006. So that's a 102% increase in spending from local sources(property taxes). That's a wopping 10 times the increase in income. "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 24, 2007 9:03 PM:
" In 2000 Holmen spent a total of $8,579 per student. In 2006 Holmen spent a total of $11,620 per student. That's a 35.45% increase. So taking student population increases into account, The Holmen School District has increased speending 3 times faster(more) than what incomes increased. "
To By the Numbers wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:39 PM:
" The 2000 school tax levy of 7M was spread between many fewer taxpayers than the 2006-2007 Holmen School District tax levy of 10.93M. That makes a big difference in how much each homeowner actually pays. For instance, at the rate Holmen is growing, the population could have easily grown by 1/3 between 2000 and 2007, as the tax levy did, which would mean no increase in taxes. "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:34 PM:
" I didn't make a single "untrue" statement. "
But wrote on Aug 24, 2007 6:09 PM:
" Holmen is growing very quickly, so that increased tax amount levied is spread out over many more homes. It's not as though your school taxes have gone up 56.14! You're not comparing apples to apples. You're manipulating numbers to try to prove a point which is untrue. "
By the Numbers wrote on Aug 24, 2007 4:47 PM:
" 2000-2001 Holmen School District tax levy 7M. 2006-2007 Holmen School District tax Levy 10.93M. That is a 56.14% increase. Median Income for La Crosse County 2000 -- $39,472. Census bureau Estimated Median Income for La Crosse County 2006 -- $43,673. That is a 10.64% increase. La Crosse County only had a 2.1% increase in population. Simply put, the Holmen School District has increased speending 5 times faster(more) than what incomes have increased. "
This state.......... wrote on Aug 23, 2007 8:40 PM:
" If you need more evidence, take a look at this
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/Advice/PropertyTaxesWhereDoesYourStateRank.aspx
WI ranks 9th in median property taxes, NUMBER ONE in terms of % of home value, and #5 as a % of income.
REPEAT AFTER ME: PROPERTY TAXES IN THIS STATE ARE ABSURD. DON'T RAISE THEM.
Then again, I guess we can't do any worst than #1. "
To "lie" wrote on Aug 22, 2007 10:39 PM:
" You must live in one heckuva house. My house in the village of Holmen is valued at around $170,000 and in the last 5 years, my school taxes have gone up a total of only $74, even though we put an addition on in 2002. If your school taxes went up "hundreds of dollars" in 5 years, does that mean they went up $100, or $999??? There is a big difference. My overall taxes went up $235 in 5 years - that's less than $50/year, which is less than $1 a week, which is less than 14 cents per day. And if your overall taxes went up $1,000 in 5 years, your house is either valued at waaaaaaay more than mine is, or you are exaggerating. "
Your taxes won't go up wrote on Aug 21, 2007 10:30 AM:
" is a LIE! That's what they said the last time, and I've seen huge jumps (hundreds of dollars) in my school taxes within the last five years. My taxes have jumped almost $1000 total in just the last five years but I can't go to my employer and demand more, I have to take what he "gives" me. Why doesn't government have to work the same way? "
To 10:58 PM wrote on Aug 21, 2007 7:29 AM:
" You hit the nail right on the head. Hopefully there are more people in Holmen who value education, regardless of whether it is their own or another generation's. Also I'd like to ask the 5:12 poster, have you priced new elementary schools lately? The price tag is not excessive; per square foot, it is average. Again, look at the plan that the facility committee has for the future growth in the district. Taxes will remain relatively steady with the building plan the committee has, given even a 5% increase (which is extremely conservative) in growth in Holmen. Your taxes are not going to skyrocket. Please, read the information available. "
It is apparent that the message that the 5:59 PM Poster wrote on Aug 20, 2007 10:58 PM:
" is conveying is: someone else provided my education but I am not willing to provide for the next generations, be it school or library. "
Library....... wrote on Aug 20, 2007 5:59 PM:
" Who the heck cares if it is the village that wants it versus the school board? The cost all comes from the same place......our pockets. $4 million for a library, $15 million for an elementary school, then another $15 million for what....a new middle school?
You can't add $35 million in taxes and not expect people to feel it.
The proximity to other communities IS important. There is no reason to spend $4 million on a library when you can make a VERY short trip. If you don't have a car you shouldn't be living in Holmen. "
::To 9:58 PM Poster wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:44 PM:
" The ARTICLE has NOTHING to do with a LIBRARY; it does have to do with a new school building and all the ADMINISTRATIVE overhead to go with. ID10T "
To 9:58 PM Poster wrote on Aug 20, 2007 8:53 AM:
" 1. The Village of Holmen not the School District is considering a new Library. 2. The total cost including land and renovations is
$4 Million. 3. The time it takes to drive to a surrounding community's library is not the issue. Holmen needs a facility that is accessable by old and young alike. "
Question to ID10T wrote on Aug 20, 2007 7:09 AM:
" A school with no hallways? How do kids get around in a building without hallways, by osmosis?? "
Sounds like wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:22 AM:
" th only one uneducated about the cost and efficiencies of building schools is you. Holmen doesn't dictate the size of the hallways the state does and oh yes let's build up so we can waste educational space on stairwells and elevators. these items have been researched and you are WRONG!!!! "
ID10T wrote on Aug 19, 2007 10:24 PM:
" "modeled on the Sand Lake Elementary School layout." Hallways are wasted space, and Sand Lake is full of them. Can't build UP! That is BAD DESIGN, and they want a repeat. This board is wasting money left and right, and the people keep re-electing them. Sounds like the real issue here isn't the board, but the uneducated voters. "
Libraries....... wrote on Aug 19, 2007 9:58 PM:
" People keep talking about this and I don't understand why. Is a 10 minute drive too far to go? I don't see why every small town like West Salem or Holmen needs to spend $5 million on a library? Its just the 'keeping up with the Jones' syndrome. I have a library card and the La Crosse libraries are just fine, plus Onalaska has one.
We should not spend to excess just because it is possible. "
Hey Ruby wrote on Aug 19, 2007 7:34 PM:
" You don't ever "have to" vote on anything. You can sit home and let everyone else vote. Personally I hope they vote for another elementary school. I think the school district has done a superb job managing our facilities needs without causing a strain on our pocketbooks. FYI, my kids are all out of school and on their own. Yet I'll vote YES on this referendum. We are growing. "
Dear Rubymom, wrote on Aug 19, 2007 5:37 PM:
" What do you mean, do we have to vote on this? Did you even read the article? A referendum is voted on by the public so yes, if you are a registered voter, you can vote on it. Your comment "Why do we need another school. We can't even get a big enough library for this area. " makes no sense. What does the size of the library have to do with needing or not needing another school??? "
To: ironic wrote on Aug 19, 2007 5:12 PM:
" What the heck are you talking about? I don't know a single person that likes getting ripped off by their mechanic. No one likes paying the stupid $60-$75 an hour that a mechanic or anyone else charges........but that has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. $15 million is a very excessive number for an elementary school and they need to get rid of the excessive price tag. "
RubyMom wrote on Aug 19, 2007 3:22 PM:
" Why do we need another school. We can't even get a big enough library for this area.
Are we going to have to vote on this. "
To thank you! wrote on Aug 18, 2007 9:44 PM:
" Holmen and the neighboring towns can control the growth. All they have to do is change the status quo. "
ironic wrote on Aug 18, 2007 8:27 PM:
" It is so ironic to me that people seem to have no issues getting hosed over by their car mechanic, plummer, etc. but get furious when they have to spend extra money on children's education. This is exactly what is so sad about our society. "
re10:42 PM: wrote on Aug 18, 2007 6:38 AM:
" If a person can't afford something, it isn't finacially prudent to buy it even on sale until finances settle. Why do all government agencies operate like they have a direct hand into citizens' pocket books? Because they can get away with it. Government, including $90,000/yr school administrators need to learn and accept the difference between "needs" and "wants" because all we are hereing from every governmental department is "I want"! "
To: Now or later wrote on Aug 17, 2007 11:10 PM:
" Regarding prices, we would actually pay a much lower price if we waited. Cement, copper, and every other building material are priced at sky high prices right now. Wait until the prices come down the price could be significantly lower. "
Now or later wrote on Aug 17, 2007 10:42 PM:
" If we don't do it now, it will have to be done later and then we will pay a much higher price including the cost of poorly educating some students in between. "
BTW wrote on Aug 17, 2007 6:07 PM:
" One more comment......where are these kids going to go to school when they get older? Prepare for someone telling you that we need another middle / high school totaling $1K in new property taxes. There is nothing wrong with 30 kids in one class. I'm betting most of us did that and we didn't need a state of the art $15M facility, either.
I grew up in rural MN and we drove 30 minutes to a library for resources. A town of 10K people doesn't need to spend $50 mil on multiple new schools and a new library. LaCrosse and Onalaska are close enough. "
Ridiculous wrote on Aug 17, 2007 5:53 PM:
" Why not just move to downtown La Crosse........that is a HUGE tax increase. I already pay a ridiculous car payment every month for LITTLE TO NO services. Tax the people who are using the schools. Why do I have to pay another $300-$500 per year? What a joke, after they build a $4M library and 10 other taxpayer financed facilities, the average home will be $4K in taxes just like LaCrosse. At least I could be closer if I'm going to pay the same taxes. "
You wrote on Aug 17, 2007 5:52 PM:
" are welcome. "
thank you! wrote on Aug 17, 2007 5:01 PM:
" I appreciate the work that the school board does including Chuck Olson. They work hard to respond to grwoth that is out of their control and provide us with an excellent educational organization for a community this small. We should be proud of all that goes on there! "
OK, let's see... wrote on Aug 17, 2007 2:05 PM:
" $15,000,000 building on a lot costing $777,120, $1,800,000 for the heating system at Evergreen, $300,000 for Viking elementary with
Olson stating that "the projects would require an additional $536,952 in operating costs $521,952 at the new school and $15,000 at Evergreen.
And then Olson says that this will cost "less than $1.87 per $1,000-- that's a tax rise of $233.75 for a home assesed at $125,000--in equalized property value". Will the local government put this in writing subject to legal action if violated? Because these finacial games end up in a REALITY of individual property tax bills increasing more than many can afford! "
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